“SEC. RUMSFELD: Let me go back to your question about sectarian violence. I may not have answered the last half of it as fully as I would like. Needless to say, any time there’s violence, sectarian or otherwise, it’s something that one has to be concerned about and oppose and attempt to do something about.
There has been sectarian violence in that part of the world for decades. And I think the important thing to do is for us to be concerned about it and for General Casey and his folks to work on it, and for the political process to go forward in a way that it would mute it and minimize it.
I think we also have to recognize that there’s criminal elements at work here, and it’s not trivial. It’s fairly significant. And I would add that it ought to be put in context. Think back. There — I don’t know whether the number’s for sure 100,000 or 200,000 or 300,000 dead Iraqi people, men, women and children, filling mass graves in that country.
And so it’s — to isolate out violence today and say, “Oh, my goodness, there’s violence today; isn’t that different” — which you did not do, of course, but I’m stating it myself — would be out of context, because in fact there’s been incredible violence in that country for year after year after year. And that does not minimize what’s taking place today, but at least it puts it in a broader context and — one would think.
Yes?”
Translation:
Saddam was a bad man. Who murdered lots of people especially the Kurds and the marsh Arabs. That’s after they were stupid enough to believe us and rose against him at our urging. Don’t ask me how many were murdered I don’t know, or care.
Here’s what Rummy (who was a flight instructor and never saw any action) meant but didn’t actually say out loud:
“We have 133,000 US troops in theater. We’re losing what little credibility we ever had. When all hell breaks loose they’re the meat in the grinder with no way out. They’re the meat in the grinder because they’ve no way out and that army I’ve got positioned at the choke point isn’t going to be able to do a damned thing for them. I don’t have any plan for victory so I’m going to stand here and ignore what the rising tide of sectarian violence actually means. It’s far more satisfying to point out that Saddam was a mass murderer and I refrain from mentioning that I personally sold him some of what he needed to do that.
I’m not going to talk about the results of my failed cynical bloodthirsty blundering empire building because I’m doing a heck of a job and anyway its all your fault.”
Here’s part of a list I compiled today March 8th:
The remainder of this article is “below the fold” :
- BAGHDAD
- About 50 employees of the Al-Rawafed security who provide security services to the Iraqna mobile telecommunications company were abducted from by gunmen wearing Iraqi police uniforms, a security source said.
- The gunmen attacked the company’s headquarter in the Al-Zayouna area [east Baghdad] disarmed the employees and took them away at gunpoint. As well as abducting the security men the raiders seized a large quantity of weapons and a considerable amount of money. Police said thee were no foreigners among those kidnapped.
- Mohammed Hasan Al-Alawi [the general manager of a gas company] escaped an assasination attempt by unidentified gunmen who opened fire on his car early this morning. His driver was very seriously wounded.
- Major General Hekmat Mousa’s house came under attack this morning. Mousa is the Interior Ministry’s Undersecretary for Police Affairs. Two Iraqi policemen were killed and another two severely wounded in the attack.
- BASRA
- A Danish soldier was injured when the convoy he was riding in was attacked in Qarnah.
- KIRKUK [AL-QADESIA]
- Dead body discoverd [head shot - mfi.]
- KIRKUK [DAGOUG]
- A bomb exploded in a car belonging to a member of the Dagoug town council, [Dagoug is in the southern sector of the city - mfi.] He survived uninjured.
- KIRKUK [IRBIL]
- Police 1st lieutenant Mahir Ali Hussein was injured in a drive by shooting on the on the Kirkuk-Hwaija-Manzelah road his driver Mousa Hameed Hussein was killed.
- MOSUL
- Four civilians were caught in the crossfire during a running gun battle in Al-Zahra between police and gunmen and wounded.
- TAL-AFAR
- One US Soldier was killed and four others were injured Wednesday by a roadside bomb.
Now let’s see in case you hadn’t noticed Rummy’s just re-written the “pottery barn” principle. In his opinion Iraq was a mess before the shock, awe, invasion, and calculated American and British attempts to foment a civil war so there’s no real harm done.
“It was broke before so I’m not paying for it.”
He’s certainly not going to take responsibility for the pack of lies that he and his cohorts including Colin Powell told. He’s hoping that nobody’ll notice that not thinking about how these “decades” of “incredible” [which is another Rummy lie as anybody who knows even a little about Iraq’s history will point out - mfi ] sectarian violence might make Iraq a less than welcoming place to invaders. After all no reasonable person could ever possibly suspect that nothing unites a people like a bunch of murderous thugs barging their way into their country.
Shorter Rummy
“And anyway if anybody’s really to blame it’s Wolfie Wolfie convinced me that Gen. Eric K. Shinseki was completely wrong about everything and as Wolfie is a renowned thinker and military expert and knows so much about the place that he was able to assure me that Iraq had no holy Cities, like oh say ….. Kerbala, Najaf, Samarra, well I believed him of course.
Not my fault.
Update: Hat-tip to reader Grania for this from Huffington Post.
“Listening to the Bush administration’s increasingly ridiculous attempts to spin the disastrous reality on the ground in Iraq, I’m wondering if they’ve hired the venerable messaging team of Ionesco, Beckett, and Genet. The theater of war meets the theater of the absurd.
Don Rumsfeld is the lead absurdist (and we’ll get to him in a minute).
But let’s start with Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who appeared on Meet the Press on Sunday, and, on the heels of the recent outbursts of sectarian violence that has pushed Iraq to the brink of civil war, declared: “I’d say things are going well. I wouldn’t put a great big smiley face on it, but I would say they’re going very, very well from everything you look at.” the remainder of the HuffPo article is here.

I think I’m going to get sick.
Comment by Declan — March 8, 2006 @ 6:58 pm
Read Arianna’s blog on Huffington Post today re the above - The New Messaging Team on Iraq: Ionesco, Beckett and Genet.
Comment by Grania — March 8, 2006 @ 7:20 pm
The idea is that they’ll surge from Kuwait? To cover a retreat?
Comment by the smurph — March 8, 2006 @ 10:27 pm
Would that history or “incredible sectarian violence” include the half million deaths of Muslim citizens of Iraq (mostly children) deliberately caused by the nominally Christian US Govt during the sanctions?
Either Rumsfeld is insane or he thinks everyone else is.
Comment by Griffon — March 8, 2006 @ 10:32 pm
smurph:
Yes.
Comment by markfromireland — March 8, 2006 @ 10:35 pm
Yes griffon and it includes the Southern Baptist missionary who having got the war she and her
death cultchurch wanted, campaigned, and preached for, said to me apropos all the deaths:Comment by markfromireland — March 8, 2006 @ 10:55 pm
Unbelievable!
how people like that missionary can be so looney and deluded and still function is beyond me.
I know! Maybe we could tie them up and torture them until they could recite “The Sermon on the Mount” verbatim.
Well…. maybe not. Need too much rope.
Comment by Griffon — March 8, 2006 @ 11:39 pm
Maybe they keep going through to H1,2 & 3 and hunker down while the death squads go for it and the Air Force go for Iran?
Heading for the Gulf might be “out of the pan and into the fire” literally
Comment by Griffon — March 9, 2006 @ 12:02 am
Just to weigh in - Rumsfeld is insane but what I think is even worse is the muted public reaction in the US to the crap that just spews from his mouth. I hear the same crap daily - we brought them (Iraq) democracy!
Comment by Grania — March 9, 2006 @ 12:05 am
Don’t think that thought hasn’t occurred griffon. Grania yah - remember “Proud American.”
Griffon - good point. However it’s 1:15am and I’ve a bit to do before I hit the hay so with apologies I’ll hold off responding to that ’til tomorrow.
G’night folks when you’re as beautiful as me you need a lot of beauty sleep - that’s my story anyway and I’m sticking to it :-).
Comment by markfromireland — March 9, 2006 @ 12:16 am
Sweet dreams! We need your head clear
Comment by Griffon — March 9, 2006 @ 12:34 am
What I find is that folks here have no knowledge of history or of the world outside the US - a friend from Germany recently said that this made her nuts until she realized how big the US is and how it then makes more sense, this lack of exposure to the world outside whereas she grew up spending weekends in Italy and … etcz) I find that even “liberals” fall much too easily for the propaganda about the Middle East - so even at places like FDL many (not all!!!) folks fall into “gosh there’s a civil war going on” or “there’s a history of sectarian fighting” or “well, women there never had any rights anyhow” rather than knowing about the real context. I’ve been lucky to be exposed to a decent amount of global history (and was raised by an extremely free-thinking socialist dad) so my first reaction is “if the US govt says X the answer must be Y” but that’s luck since the culture around me certainly does not help develop independent thinking. I guess I’m making excuses for american folks but I have found that when people learn what’s really going on, they are humane and concerned - and clearly the polls show immense distrust/disgust of W’s Iraq war. So we have to keep educating … and wishing there was a way to put a stop to this …
aside - thanks to markfromireland I’m reading FIsk’s Great War for Civilization and while I knew the outline, the details are so critical - and so unknown here. I highly recommend it to anyone who also needs an in-depth briefing - and it’s a very well done read besides (though not a happy one)
Comment by siun — March 9, 2006 @ 2:37 am
We have often heard that there are 100,000 to 300,000 mass graves in Iraq from Saddam. About half of all KNOWN mass grave sites have been evacuated, and the total number uncovered is about 10,000 to 12,000. The remaining sites are not being looked at because of the poor security situation, but I imagine they went to dig up the larger sites first (like Hilla, which had nearly 3,000 graves alone).
Also, there are about 2,000 mass graves in Fallujah from US war on Iraq.
And Iraq Body Count says more than 30,000 have died in this war. Statistical analysis puts the estimate of total deaths from the Iraq War at 180,000, but it may be as high as 500,000. That would include deaths from lack of medical care and clean water… not to mention stress.
And we are far, far, far from done.
Comment by Susan — March 9, 2006 @ 3:46 am
Mark, apologies for the length of this but here is a scenario I have been mulling over for a few days now and it just won’t go away. I am hoping you will be able to tell me that it is not possible and that I’m away with the “faeries”!
It is based on the assessment that the US leaders are “power junkies” and like all addicts, are unwilling to look at consequences and will just apply more of the same (in this case, military force) when things go wrong.
The loonies have been compared lately to poker players (by David Mamet and others) that keep bluffing and raising and so far no one is calling them. So far it’s worked and therefore they will continue with it.
I am also aware that there is an extraordinary amount that I am UNaware of!
So what’s the likelyhood that the US troops withdraw to H1, 2 & 3 while the hit squads/special ops/Mossad do their thing in the Sunni & Shia areas causing pandemonium and creating a tempting vacuum for the Iranians to fall into.
Israel, to get the ball rolling, invades part of Lebanon to secure desperately needed water resources and hoping to provoke Syria. Syria responds, or Israel claims they do, and Israel and US attack Syria and hope to take out the Russian crewed missiles before they’re launched. Creating confusion about who moved first might delay the Russians just long enough. In any case, they may think the Russians aren’t game to “call” them. Plus the US forces are now along the Syrian border.
All this gets too much for the Iranians and they fire off their missiles (Sunburns, Exocets) at anything that looks US in the Gulf (sorry Kuwait, UAE - but hey, they’re Muslims, anyway!) but the US are largely long gone.
Iran falls into the vacuum and invades Iraq.
The US waits till the Iranians are well inside Iraqi territory and then launches massive bombardment of Iran with the aim of “bombing it back into the Stone Age” and leaving their army stranded without a supply line in Iraq. Thus ensueing another “turkey shoot” but this time it’s the Iranians.
The oil infrastructure in southern Iraq and southern Iran is now in a shambles and isn’t going to be pumping oil anywhere for quite a while. The gas pipeline to Pakistan/India is history which leaves the Pakistanis stranded (but, hey, they’re Muslims too!) unless they want to co-operate with the other pipeline, the one through Afghanistan, and lean on the Taliban not to sabotage it. India has US co-operation in their civil nuclear program now and part of that deal probably was that India stop co-operating with China in tieing up oil contracts around the world.
The oil regions in the north of both Iran and Iraq are now in the hands of the Kurds and their allies, the US and the Israelis. Oil is pretty soon pumping across Syria or Jordan to Haifa and Iran is left with bugger all income and fewer friends. Supplies to the US forces now come via Israel.
Chaos all round with the US standing back saying “it’s not our fault, we’re just defending ourselves” and China with no hope of getting oil or gas from Iran anytime soon.
The price of oil goes throught the roof and ensuring a more than strong demand for US dollars. I reckon they would see this as “win-win”!
Comment by Griffon — March 9, 2006 @ 4:48 am
You go to civil war with the sectarians you have.
Comment by Nur al-Cubicle — March 9, 2006 @ 8:18 am
Way too complicated griffon. (I agree about the neocons.) Believe me the Iranians are not interested in taking over Iraq. They never were. Close relations yes. nothing more.
Comment by markfromireland — March 9, 2006 @ 5:11 pm
I am pleased to hear that, Mark. Thanks
Comment by Griffon — March 9, 2006 @ 9:15 pm
Bageezus!
When will this administration follow the (sad) Jonestown, Guyana example and drop dead from all that Koolaid they’re drinking?!
Comment by isologia — March 10, 2006 @ 8:06 am
Mark does this sound familiar?
Comment by Johnny Mc — March 10, 2006 @ 4:33 pm
Comment edited at request of poster.
mfi
Comment by Declan — March 10, 2006 @ 5:27 pm
Motion carried unanimously. But a topic for another place I think gentlemen?
Comment by markfromireland — March 10, 2006 @ 5:41 pm
Comment edited at request of poster.
mfi
Comment by the smurph — March 10, 2006 @ 5:42 pm
Oops - sorry Gor I think we cross-posted.
Comment by the smurph — March 10, 2006 @ 5:43 pm
No prob want me to delete or edit?
Done.
PS: smurph will be minding the shop tonight be aware that he’s nowhere near as nice as I am ;-)
Comment by markfromireland — March 10, 2006 @ 5:46 pm
Here’s an article by Michael Schwartz about the power vacuum in Iraq and how it is being filled.
The basics are that because the local areas were left to govern themselves (and given no support) and because of the lack of US troop numbers and training, they are now governed by local sectarian councils and that the central government (the subject of all the elections and daily news) is totally impotent and the US forces not far behind them.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=66969
Incompetance which is nothing short of criminal negligence (at best)
Comment by Griffon — March 10, 2006 @ 8:30 pm
Incompetent? This is what they and their strategic ally wanted.
Comment by the smurph — March 10, 2006 @ 9:22 pm
Smurf,
perhaps I could have worded it better. I agree it’s the old “Order Out of Chaos” trick …. after first creating the chaos. Didn’t one of the neo-cons (Ledeen?) describe it as “creative destruction”?
But I also don’t think the Crusaders have the control over events that they thought they would. No one ever does but they can’t see that.
Comment by Griffon — March 11, 2006 @ 12:55 am
so guess who Fox News has on to comment on the “threat to use oil as a weapon” (please read that phrase with maximum shocked voice)> Reza Pahlavi! son of Shah … telling us of all the evils of Iran and their attempt to dominate the world and turn it all into a caliphate, etc etc … Reza talks about “staking our claim to a free Iraq”
time to start the countdown to the first strike…
we’ve got nuclear threat, oil as weapon and a Pahlavi which is clearly even better than a Chalabi - what more could the neos ask for?
Comment by siun — March 12, 2006 @ 3:09 am
sorry for double posting - got into watching Fox News some more - they have a special on “Iran and the Bomb” in which they feature a ton of John Bolton interview footage, a weird fake specialist from ISIS who can tell us precisely where the weapons programs are, and an amazing segment which explains that Iran backs Hezbollah who back Al Quaeda who … and Iran made friends with Bin Laden after the Cole bombing … and Iran was behind a number of terrorist bombings … and … to top it off, with lots of 911 footage - the 911 terrorists travelled through Iran!” (imagine all “reported” with lots of appropriate pictures) followed by Bolton talking about how important it is to stop Iran - so, since Iraq is working out so hot we now pick a new “they have wmd, support terrorism and attacked us on 911″ target.
so that’s the news from the land of faux - I’d take it as a warning of what’s to come
Comment by siun — March 12, 2006 @ 5:40 am
Siun, on your recommendation I have reserved Robert Fisk’s book at my library but I’m wondering whether I’ll get to read it before the manure hits the revolving aerofoil. Unbelievable!
Mark, I don’t suppose you know if the US 5th Fleet is still in the Gulf, do you?
Comment by Griffon — March 12, 2006 @ 9:39 am
Yes they’re still there and in fact were reinforced by strike force Reagan late last month:
The Ronald Reagan Strike Group is comprised of:
Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 14.
Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 7.
(That’s 7 squadrons of aircraft and a helicopter ASW unit if I’ve counted correctly.)
The nuclear-powered aircraft carrier Reagan
The guided-missile cruiser USS Lake Champlain (CG 57),
The guided-missile destroyers USS McCampbell (DDG 85) and USS Decatur (DDG 73)
The fast-combat support ship USS Rainer (T-AOE 7)
And an Explosives Ordnance Disposal Unit 11.
At least one of those squadrons the F/A-18E Super Hornets who are assigned to the “Eagles” of Strike Fighter Attack Squadron (VFA) 115 have been conducting bombing missions in Iraq since the last week in Februaury.
All of that’s on top of the helicopter gunships now being deployed to Iraq of course.
Comment by markfromireland — March 12, 2006 @ 12:49 pm
Griffon - thank our host for the Fisk recommendation - and it continues to amaze me. I read last night that Fisk was supposed to speak in the US and was refused entry supposedly for not having his papers in order. This even though the Financial Times (that liberal rag) called him “one of the outstanding reporters of this generation. As a war correspondent he is unrivalled.”
Comment by siun — March 12, 2006 @ 4:56 pm
Thanks, Mark.
I was hoping that they would still be there. I would be alarmed if they suddenly left.
But I was not expecting to hear they have been reinforced given the Iranian missile capability.
Does it make any sense to you?
OK. I’ll rephrase that - what kind of senseless thinking do you think is going through the Bush Junta’s collective mind?
Even that needs rephrasing!
I’ve read and listened to Robert Fisk many times. I wish he was PM (not that he’d want it)
Comment by Griffon — March 12, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
LOL I hope your library has looooooooooooooooong borrowing periods that book is hefty. It’s well worth reading. I’ve met Fisk twice when he’s given talks, he lives in Ireland, he’s a decent old fashioned Brit, and I mean that as a compliment.
The thing that worries me is the reinforcement + the fact that they’re bringing gunships in for use in built up areas. That’s a recipe for a lot of innocent people being killed. No not just killed - murdered.
Here’s my take on the Bushistas. They’re a bunch of thugs with the moral outlook of a starving shark. They’re doing what they’re doing because that’s all they know or want. I’m not going to get into what I think of the people who are in command of the army either. Except to note that if you claim to be morally superior, as a lot of them do, then sooner or later life says “Oh yeah? Prove it.” So far they’re failing at meeting that test.
Anyway what I really came on to say was that Mark has been told to take it a bit easier for a week or two for his health so we’ll try to fill in. But it may take a little longer to get replies. :-)
Comment by the smurph — March 12, 2006 @ 10:22 pm
Mark- sorry this is OT, but I just found a site that has some videos from ME TV amongst the US videos. I think it’s a relatively new blog- but the guy doing it (DE) has been contributing video to BradBlog for at least a few years. I have a slow connection, so I haven’t checked out the videos, but perhaps some might be useful to you. You might even be able to get him to do some special stuff for you. I don’t know him personally, but had a few emails back and forth with him when I was posting on BB and he seems like a good guy.
http://veredictum.com/
Comment by Valley Girl — March 13, 2006 @ 12:25 am
Thanks for the “heads up”, Smurf. “By their fruits ye shall know them” eh?
I guess Mark’s talk of having a “seizure” was a bit of dark humour.
Take it easy, Mark. Your health is your “capital”.
Comment by Griffon — March 13, 2006 @ 1:37 am
Look after yourself, Mark. Your health comes first. Always. We [and the world] can wait. Take it easy, and take your time.
Comment by Richard — March 14, 2006 @ 12:00 am
Wishing you a speedy recovery Mark!
Comment by Grania — March 14, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
If Mark is here or one of his people I’d like to ask a “technical” question about the air operation?
Comment by Peter NJ — March 18, 2006 @ 4:54 pm
Go ahead Peter. We aren’t online 24/7 but we do answer when we can.
Comment by markfromireland — March 19, 2006 @ 11:20 am